Join us on the Kreashon Podcast as we delve into the critical issues of climate change, environmental justice, and community empowerment. In this episode, we sit down with Churmer Bomba, a passionate advocate from Greenpeace Netherlands, originally from Bonaire. Discover the inspiring journey of Churmer as he discusses his role as a community organizer and mobilizer, working towards climate justice for the ABCSSS Islands and the Caribbean diaspora in the Netherlands.
Topics: Climate Change, Environmental Justice, Community Empowerment, Climate Adaptation, Green Activism, Advocacy 🎙️ Speakers: Maanarak of Grey ,Kreashon Churmer Bomba, Greenpeace Netherlands
Maanarak of Grey 00:14
We envision a future where individuals are empowered to think critically and creatively, where citizens become agents of change by promoting self-governance, co-creation, and bottom up approaches. Welcome to our podcast.
Maanarak of Grey 00:54
Welcome back to the Kreashon podcast. Today I have guest with me, I have Churmer Bomba from Greenpeace Netherlands. Also from Bonaire originally. So welcome, Churmer. Hi.
Churmer Bomba 01:08
Thank you for having me.
00:01:10:10 - 00:01:23:14
Maanarak of Grey
Yes, my pleasure. Thank you for joining. And I'm going to dive right in. That's my favorite style of interviewing people. So who are you? Who is Churmer?
Churmer Bomba 01:24
I’m Churmer Bomba. Someone that grew up on the island of Bonaire. I lived there until I was 19. And then I came to the Netherlands to study. And I studied international business. And I've always had a sense of you want to do something back for islands. And a few years ago I, I got into contact with Greenpeace during an interview at the at the genesis of the Campaign Climate Justice webinar and soon after and an opportunity arrived where I could actually contribute by becoming a community organizer and mobilizer and I had to jump on it and now work at Greenpeace for the island where I grew up.
Maanarak of Grey 02:14
So. So how long have you been working at this?
Churmer Bomba 02:19
Just over a year. Okay. I started last year in the in July.
Maanarak of Grey 02:24
And so so just for our understanding what what does a community organizer do at Greenpeace?
Churmer Bomba 02:33
Yeah. So Greenpeace has a history of working together with communities in impacted areas and they build people power together. And then you try to effect change to protect the environment and also the spaces where people live on and so I do that. So on a side note, so I'm a, I'm a community organizer mobilizer in, in, in the Netherlands, so as a European analyst.
Churmer Bomba 03:04
But my sister is a community organizer, mobilizer on women. So we're kind of like two sides of the medallion. And what she does on the island with the community on Bonaire, I do here in the Netherlands with the I would say, the Caribbean diaspora from the ABC Islands here in the Netherlands. And we try to to bridge that connection as it comes to climate change and climate justice for the islands.
Maanarak of Grey 03:33
Yeah, that's really interesting that you're like collaborating together and I've seen the pictures and the that that I didn't know she was like doing the same job as you there. It's really nice. And also the the ship, the green, the ship went there. Assuming you guys had something to do with this. Yeah. So what, what, what the lowest point of this visit to Bonaire and how did that go?
Churmer Bomba 04:03
So the campaign has become, you could say, more public. Last year in the summer. So we noticed that the the islands are, as we know, generally islands are more susceptible to the impacts of climate change. And if we look to when they're in their stations in Sabah, they are territories of the Netherlands and thus the Netherlands also has a responsibility to protect all of its citizens against the impacts of climate change and as a responsibility to make sure that they have the right for life safety and so that they can grow up for generations as well.
Churmer Bomba 04:44
And we know that in the European alliance you have different standards and measures being taken in place, and that's for the rarest type of storms. There's measures being taken to ensure that the lives of people are protected. But not nothing was put in place for the islands. So and research was asked to be done by the Prime Minister and to them under the potential impacts of climate change and and we published that in August last year.
Churmer Bomba 05:22
But it was and since then there was basically more of interest to the people of Bonaire. Who is Greenpeace? Why is Greenpeace now the mayor? What is climate change? What are the efforts on Bonaire for potential impacts as well? And what can we do about that? And the Arctic Sunrise. So the ship that came was also in that effort to allow the community to get to know Greenpeace more as questions inform themselves.
Churmer Bomba 05:53
Also on the the matters and the campaign.
Maanarak of Grey 05:56
Now how are you received by the community there?
Churmer Bomba 06:02
It was actually pretty good. We had something over 2000 people have visited the ship. It was there for about a week, more than a week. There were also open boat days. There were also moments when schools organized and then we had school groups organized to come. And we also had the two local politicians also were invited on the on the ship for a masterclass about climate change, its impacts for Bonaire.
Churmer Bomba 06:34
Yeah, and if I think about the size of the population, this is almost like 10% of population is bigger than the sea. So that's actually really, really good. Yeah.
Maanarak of Grey 06:44
And that brings some hope because I was talking about this topic also, part of what we do with commercial will also bring up climate change as we're talking about social, environmental, economic interconnectedness. So the climate changes is one of those topics that come up. And I got asked a question, Is Bonaire really waiting for you to go with all of this dive?
Maanarak of Grey 07:13
It does. That's why I was curious to how they responded to you. Greenpeace going there.
Churmer Bomba 07:21
Yeah, I think one one thing we should always keep in mind is that the impact of climate change is is kind of intersectional in the sense that it impacts us all, but it impacts us differently. If you have someone that I'm want to take the comments on climate, you have someone who lives in the house of those with breaks and you have like storm for windows.
Churmer Bomba 07:48
Let's say you have have come. Currently we're in a hurricane season as well. You still feel pretty safe in your house. Yeah, but if you live in a house that's built of wood and you have like the tin roofs making happen, the locals win the compassion easily. They can fly, they can become a hazard. Right. And if your roof flies off and let's say in a week or two, if there's another storm coming, you feel less safe.
Churmer Bomba 08:14
So there's a different impact on you. And what you also see is that if you already are struggling to afford your house, make sure they're sitting on the table. You don't have the mental space to think about the impacts of climate change, which might come next week or next month or next year or in ten years. So you don't have the space to think about what comes in the future because you're so focused on now.
Maanarak of Grey 08:41
Yeah, you're surviving.
Churmer Bomba 08:43
Yeah, survival.
Maanarak of Grey 08:44
But that's a week from now. I need food right now.
Churmer Bomba 08:47
Yeah. So it's almost like a luxury problem to think about climate change. And in that sense, I do understand when people are saying like, do we even have the time or space to talk about climate change right now? Are they ready? Are they ready to talk about, as you just said? Yeah.
Maanarak of Grey 09:04
Now, that's that's really interesting. And as we're talking about the community, I saw also that Greenpeace, along with a community of wineries and I don't know if it should sue the government or is that it was like a warning letter for me. It was like unclear the exact status of where you are.
Churmer Bomba 09:27
Okay, so the campaign part of the campaign is an element that we call the litigation. So you're using litigation. So a court case to also affect change. Yeah. And it also sets a precedent. So, for example, if we win the court case, then you have a precedent which, for example, say back and used to also do their own court case because there's already been a resident set map and there are steps that you need to take before you can take someone to court.
Churmer Bomba 10:02
And the last one that was taken, certainly the one you're referring to, is is where we sent the so massive. So in English, I believe it's called a pre litigation letter back to the prime minister of Netherlands. And they said you can see it as a final warning. And the they also have the Dutch state also have a deadline until the end of September to meet the demands or or else you will take the next steps and then you actually start in court.
Maanarak of Grey 10:36
Okay. So we're not at suing yet. We've warned them. And before those warnings, as do my on this, because I'm not a lawyer before this warning, there were other steps that nougat already taken. So you've been already sending letters to to the state.
Churmer Bomba 10:52
Yeah. So so it's also like if someone's committing a crime, you need to let them know that committing. I need to be aware of that. Yeah. So you can say that the efforts of the research as well, so that when they're at risk for these impacts and we also have reports from the SBS, the international courts for so I forgot the name, but you also have like international reports and also say that's more violence in the Philippines.
Churmer Bomba 11:25
States are also at risk. So these are signals that we've been receiving for many, many years that say islands are at risk. Yeah. And then if the Dutch state knows that islands are a state and they don't take action, then you're doing something that's not right. Yeah. So the effort so whole last year was also making sure that the state knows you are breaking these people's rights, the right to life, family life, culture, etc. And then if you notice that they don't act on it, then you can continue to take the next steps.
Maanarak of Grey 12:01
Ever curious why? To be very honest, my conspiracy theory brain just went like, didn't they already know that they were, You know.
Churmer Bomba 12:14
They. They did. Yeah. All right, well, I can say it, but that would be my opinion. But I would say that because we've also asked for them. So. So you can also look into our conversation starter the government has had around the islands climate change and those topics. And what we see is that structurally and systematically that you always see in the small letters, the islands are excluded from this and this and this.
Churmer Bomba 12:48
All right. So also with the Paris Agreement, you also see that the islands have been excluded from those.
Maanarak of Grey 12:55
No right. That that's yeah, it's it's such an interesting relationship. I think that we have as islands in terms of with like the US. Yes. The EU sorry the EU has as all of these agreements and they have all of these funds available for these kinds of research and we are supposed to be part of the EU. It's not like geographic claim, but politically.
Maanarak of Grey 13:31
So I do, I do find it interesting how how they they handle this or the lack of handle actually, because it's like.
Churmer Bomba 13:39
Oh.
Maanarak of Grey 13:40
We're only getting the attention when it suits them almost. At least that's how it feels like to me. When it suits them, we get the attention and these things that I would think are maybe more pressing to give attention to aren't giving the attention. So yeah, I do. I was just really excited to learn about your your case and what you're doing and the there's already a group of people behind this.
Maanarak of Grey 14:11
And how big is the group of people that have been sending the letter or cosigned the letter? I don't know how you would call these people.
Churmer Bomba 14:22
So currently Greenpeace, together with seven inhabitants of Bonaire, taking these legal steps and you have some of the people are inhabitants of Bonaire, and you also have some that are living here in the European Netherlands, because we also acknowledge that the population is also diverse. You want to you want a house to have a diversity of representation in the case.
Churmer Bomba 14:48
Yeah, but due to nature, so such as myself, I came to know as a study a thing, same as you as well. So there's a lot of people from Bonaire that come here but you still have those cultural and those family ties to the island. So that's why we also have plaintiffs here and also on the islands.
Maanarak of Grey 15:08
Okay. And how big is the group of plaintiffs?
Churmer Bomba 15:11
Seven. So seven, seven inhabitants of from there. And so all of them, including Greenpeace, they are all individual plaintiffs.
Maanarak of Grey 15:19
Okay. And I understood that. But it's not I understood I saw the page that you're asking kind of back up for some the public as well, like you could sign the petition to. And how does this help? Like, let's say I did sign a petition and other people are signing the petition. How does this help your case?
Churmer Bomba 15:45
So we launched a I don't know that word in English, but in books it's called May this summer. So you can kind of see it as someone writing a letter exclaiming X, Y, Z, and then you as a person say, I also signed and support, like for this person, I'm going. So if someone wanted to become a major standard, they are saying that I support the people from there.
Churmer Bomba 16:14
And Greenpeace in this court case, and I also stand with the demands that they have against the state. Okay. And it also helps a lot to also show the court that's not only these plaintiffs are the ones to demand this justice, but also other people of the broader community.
Maanarak of Grey 16:32
Okay, Got it. That's I mean, that this sorry, it's just my right, my brain going. Oh, that's interesting that I continuously saying that's answer but it is interesting but.
Churmer Bomba 16:45
It does it does certainly help. Yeah.
Maanarak of Grey 16:47
And erm what are the next steps. So we're now waiting for September to see if anything, any steps has been taken by the Prime Minister. Was that you. And then it get to the, the cabinets broke. So Yeah.
Churmer Bomba 17:08
So “inderdaad”.
Maanarak of Grey 17:11
“laughs” Don’t worry.
Churmer Bomba 17:13
So the cabinet did fall. However we did receive invitation to go and conversation with some of the ministers. So soon the plaintiffs will be talking to the Minister to the Minister for Climate and also someone from you have two ministers and also one secretary of State that will be in the in the meeting. So they will represent the different ministries and also the the secretary of state will be present and they will have a conversation with the plaintiffs about the demands.
Churmer Bomba 17:54
However, comma, as we look, if we look at the track record of the promises that the Netherlands has made, for example, if I look at minimum loan, yeah, I think we are at the fourth commission that's going to make another report as to why we should have a minimum loan on the island. And so there isn't much trust that the Netherlands is all of a sudden going to do what is necessary to protect the island.
Churmer Bomba 18:21
I would love to be pleasantly surprised. I do have doubts. So we will continue to take the preparations necessary to go to the next step. Okay.
Maanarak of Grey 18:33
Yeah. It's as you mentioned, being pleasantly surprised. But what would it look like? Like the best case scenario.
Churmer Bomba 18:44
Yeah. So in the in the demands, if I had to break it down, there's there's technically there's two demands. One, the man is about protecting Bremer and making sure that more research is being done into what the risks are and what is necessary to, to remove the risks. Because right now, the only reason that we did a research and we asked to the a check of your research, but that's not the obligation of an NGO to do is something that belongs with the state.
Churmer Bomba 19:22
But that's one report. And if you actually look at the body of knowledge in the whole Netherlands about impacts for you, in the Netherlands, this is a big contrast. Yes. So you need you need more research. You need to know what the options are and also take these considerations in as an involve the local community into this decision so it doesn't become a top down.
Churmer Bomba 19:51
You're going to do ABC because we think this is the best. Now you need to see what fits with the culture, with this, with the people, because measures that you take also have an impact on people's lives. And the other thing that that needs to happen is that you want to mitigate the the potential impacts as much as possible.
Churmer Bomba 20:14
And that's working really means that the Netherlands needs to reduce its own CO2 emissions and very quickly. And this is because we can take all the measures that we want to protect Bonaire, but if the Netherlands keeps emitting emissions and like we say in Papiamentu is like or as we say also in Dutch…that it's like you're you're sweeping water into the sea and your your your mopping with the with the faucet open.
Churmer Bomba 20:50
So it's like you're not really helping the problem.
Maanarak of Grey 20:53
I'm reminded of one of my favorite memes, which is a gentleman at the beach with a mop and mopping the apartment.
Churmer Bomba 21:02
There is a Gaga kaka. And so you're.
Maanarak of Grey 21:06
Button to the ocean.
Churmer Bomba 21:08
Yeah.
Maanarak of Grey 21:09
Is there? The water comes from the beginning.
Churmer Bomba 21:11
Yes.
Maanarak of Grey 21:13
Yeah. Yeah, I can. I can see that. And I do agree with you that there's there's a whole lot of research on this for the Netherlands and the effects it will have for the Netherlands. Different scenarios, different cases, the that they get of course is that they can take and I'm always once one of these rich searches come out, I always very excitedly, perhaps naively, you go and look for what are they talking about the islands and it's like zero mention acknowledgment of the islands.
Maanarak of Grey 21:55
So I do agree that there's a lot more research that needs to be done and I would think that cutting emissions, I mean, yeah, the Netherlands can cut admission, but I think it's a global thing, right? I definitely I think at the end this is the Netherlands is like completely like carbon neutral and the rest of the world is still heavily polluted.
Maanarak of Grey 22:19
We will still be affected because oh yeah, so the world does not account for boundaries or political, you know, relationships. It's just nature in that sense. And. Okay. And then what do you think would be like the worst case scenario since we looked at the best case?
Churmer Bomba 22:41
So worst case scenario from the the research that the financial sector has done, from what we can see is that if no measures are taken and some things that you can notice really quickly is how bad the corals will be. Yeah, if you think about when they're a lot of it's income drives on tourism, diving tourism, to be exact.
Churmer Bomba 23:09
So there's a that the corals supply to purposes corals or a natural late breaker or stormbreaker so it can protect the island against islands but they also attract the tourists which brings income to them and people that work in America. Or also if you think about people that fish who bring food to the tables and when if the temperature of the ocean rises, it also has impact on the on the corals, the state of the corals.
Churmer Bomba 23:39
But also we notice that even now, there's also like diseases impact in the of the America. And so that can you can really see like in only like a few decades like how fast it can degrade and some impacts that you also see is that with more droughts or farmers but also have more less ability actually to grow food and people's health will also be impacted because of the heat and we also see, for example, if it does rain, you might get heavy storm rains, but because the ground is so dry, basically the water just rushes over top and just erodes away in the ocean.
Churmer Bomba 24:27
And I think one of the biggest impacts that you can physically see is that a large portion of the south side of the island and also near the capital can become permanently inundated by sea level rise and also even more winds in combination with storms. Yeah, and if I look on one there, if I know if I'm thinking about, for example, where our important infrastructure is like the airport, if I think about where the hospital is, is going to be flooded.
Maanarak of Grey 25:01
Yeah, I mean, that's already an issue. It has.
Churmer Bomba 25:03
Exactly. Yeah.
Maanarak of Grey 25:04
Yeah that that I recall from my you that that when you storms hit that there was already issues around the hospital area where you can barely like can drive parked there to get out and go to the hospital so yeah yeah. And they think that so that can be solved with like infrastructure as well like adapting the infrastructure.
Churmer Bomba 25:37
So so when I talk about the demands in the in the case, so if I, if I give them a term they're protecting from there is called you can call it adaptation. So how would you go about with the impacts. Yeah. And part of adaptation is then making sure if it does rain how do you control that rain?
Churmer Bomba 25:58
They want it to go into the ground so you have more ground water for the farmers, for example, Or if you want to redirect it from certain places. So infrastructure both play a role in that or can play a role. But to know exactly to what extent you need the restarts to be able to to know and then the funding to be able to do it.
Churmer Bomba 26:19
All right. So yeah, but I do think it can play a role. Yes.
Maanarak of Grey 26:25
Yeah. So I was just I got to conclude the big overarching issue here is the lack of research in terms of adaptation to these possibilities. In the future, though, some things are being done. So I think because in my houses, like in the center, so I know that they were doing some things with the street to avoid this kind of flooding situation.
Maanarak of Grey 27:02
Though my mom told me, Well, it hasn't rained so hard. Yeah, so we have to wait and see a lot of work.
Churmer Bomba 27:10
I've seen pictures of Aruba this week.
Maanarak of Grey 27:13
Okay.
Churmer Bomba 27:14
All the storms over doesn't happen. On one hand, it's like.
Maanarak of Grey 27:17
Okay, we're waiting to see it. And again, for the people in the in the capital, we know what area we're in because it was always like this, always with heavy rains. My father would go and open the drains. This countless pictures of him in the in the newspaper opening the drains to it. And old newspapers I would have to search.
Maanarak of Grey 27:41
But he was opening the drain. So. So that the water flushes out, though. So we do know that there's a risk of flooding. And I hope that the the changes that they are starting to do now is going to help. And I think we can conclude that a lot more has to happen. I think one of the other issues I was talking to someone about this yesterday, they said, well, there's so much to do, it is actually too much happening on Bonaire and we don't have or that the government, the municipality doesn't have the right amount of skilled workers to implement because it's there's policies where the implementation lectured because there's so much to do
Maanarak of Grey 28:31
and you know, there's just not enough people to to do this. So if we look at ways of solving this, we think we can make more young people. On Bonaire kind of excited to get involved to do that and study something like climate adaptation, just to name something.
Churmer Bomba 29:00
I think I do think is possible if I think like, for example, practically on Bonaire right now, they're building a very big solar park. And so I think, for example, if you we have like I believe we have electricians opleiding at the at the MBO. So you can say, okay, we're going to make sure that for the next couple of years people are better equipped to to become solar panel technicians.
Churmer Bomba 29:34
And that's something that could help if, let's say, yeah, once on the mountain from the from the energy company. But let's say if more people as well that have the means to put solar panels to switch off from the fossil energy, then you have jobs that actually also provide and benefit from that. If you know that you're going to be working a lot with water management, it also makes sense to make sure I have students that's learn more about that.
Churmer Bomba 30:05
And then, for example, there's a friend of mine that actually studied road infrastructure here in the Netherlands and once would like to go back to the islands. And then it would make sense if you have those if you know that you have the youth that study these things. Yeah, those options for them to come back, facilitate or help, facilitate or make it easier for them to come back.
Churmer Bomba 30:30
Yeah, because they have the knowledge, but they also know the context of their own island. The people, the people of the people always know from where they lived, always know best what works.
Maanarak of Grey 30:40
Yeah, most true. And I think that it also bridges in the sense that because you know the local area and you know the culture you know the language it can help bridge also that it's not some external person coming in and telling us what to do but it's passionate people from the land coming back and trying to contribute to this.
Maanarak of Grey 31:09
So I do hope to see more people going back to to do something. Yeah, no, it's really interesting. I mean, I can go on forever about this. It can go really deep. Like even with my my thought about solar panel, like a yes, that's a solution. But also I start seeing the issue within natural resources needed to make all of that possible.
Maanarak of Grey 31:41
And you know, the whole batteries situations, which is at the moment not really regenerative resources. So that's a whole different can of worms that I'm choosing not to open right now.
Churmer Bomba 32:00
Yeah, Yeah. It's not really my expertise, but from what I've read, I do know that they do say in the Caribbean because you have a lot of sun and a constant stream of wind, they do have those options for renewable energies and I believe that there are also ways to create what you call a battery used using water as a pump water up to a higher elevation, and you can use it to power turbines.
Churmer Bomba 32:25
Yeah, but yeah, but that's a yeah, that's a different conversation.
Maanarak of Grey 32:31
I, I guess, But yeah, they're choosing not to open that counter for I'm making a note for it so I'm going to do some more research. I like that idea of water battery. Just the whole to make things more regenerative because yes, we can use nature, but the point is that we're using nature right now in a way that doesn't refill nature and that that is the issue because we're depleting everything we run out constantly pulling.
Maanarak of Grey 33:02
Yeah. And making it. Yeah. But that's I'm going to do a regeneration episode. Is there anything else that you would like to share with our audience?
Churmer Bomba 33:15
What I would like to share is that every little bit that people do to help or contribute it, it does matter. Um, and I think like even if we think like on a personal level, for example, for some people the conversation about becoming vegan or vegetarian might be too much. But let's say if you eats meat one day less in the week, it it if we think about one person doing that or like about people doing that, that already has an impact.
Churmer Bomba 33:51
Yeah, but also when people do different campaigns and they have petitions and things like that, it also helps because for example, signing a petition shows and then they are also able to show or and prove that this is an issue that's going on the community. So I think, for example, in in this campaign in particular and the we're taking the legal steps against the states, becoming a made us stronger is a really good way that you can contribute to it as well.
Churmer Bomba 34:23
And I don't know if you can put the link below or so.
Maanarak of Grey 34:27
Put a link somewhere will, and send me all the links that you want to be links, then I'll make sure that they're there.
Churmer Bomba 34:35
But then I would, I would really fact people to also like support this this case and become a major summer. And I think for Bonaire so recently I was in in the Pacific I went to a lot to to as part of the Pacific parameter to gather evidence on climate impacts on the islands there to support the campaigns there.
Churmer Bomba 35:03
And last week they were at Kiawah Island. Fiji was the last place that they went to in the campaign and the tour. And there's a picture of an elder who was born in, I believe, 1952. You were standing with his grandchild where the coastline used to be, and he's standing with his grandson and the water's coming at shoulder height.
Churmer Bomba 35:29
Well, that is just within three generations. Consciously, you're already to see the impacts of climate change and with what I know. So from the research that I've seen from the primary states, I see the potential impact of this has been there. But we still have a chance to make sure that it doesn't happen. So this is why I really urge people to do take action and support the people of Bonaire in this case, because it really can make a difference whether people in the future will still have access to the land, the culture and and their right to life.
Churmer Bomba 36:10
Thanks. Yeah.
Maanarak of Grey 36:12
Thank you so much for joining me today and telling us more about your work. And obviously, if go into all of the details, will be here for like 2 hours. But I think that's a nice introduction to you and what you do. And what is this case about that you're working on? Why is it it's important?
Maanarak of Grey 36:35
And for anyone that this story resonates with and you want to support the efforts of Greenpeace and the plaintiffs, we will link it somewhere, I think probably in the description box will be the to use and you can cosine this addition. And on that note, thank you for joining us on the Kreashon podcast. Yes.
Churmer Bomba 37:01
Thank you for having me.
Bonaire and the Climate Crisis.