Explore the vision of the Equal Trade Alliance and its mission to revolutionize global trade for a more just future. Join us for an enlightening conversation with Max Koffi, founder of Africa in Motion, as we discuss reshaping the trade landscape and empowering Africa.
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Maanarak
We envision a future where individuals are empowered to think critically and creatively, where citizens become agents of change by promoting self-governance, co-creation, and bottom up approaches. Welcome to our podcast.
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Maanarak
Welcome back to the Kreashon Podcast. Today I have to ask Max Welcome.
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Max
Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.
00:01:04:03 - 00:01:36:04
Maanarak
I'm so happy you accepted the invitation. I met you some years ago that you're doing work with Africa in Motion. As I told you before, I said I'm interviewing people that are doing inspiring things for people that are marginalized. And I just wanted to share your story with our viewers. So on that note, who is Max Coffee and what do you do?
00:01:37:05 - 00:02:18:17
Max
Oh, that's a very nice question. So I can be short or long. But anyhow, I will try to tell a bit about me. I was born in West Africa, in Togo, and my parents came from Guinea, also in West Africa. I grew up in Congo, both Congo-Brazzaville and Congo. Kinshasa. It's so that I feel more Congolese because I moved from Togo when I was 12 and I grew up in Congo.
00:02:19:03 - 00:02:55:07
Max
I've studied medicine there for five years, and then I went to France to do psychology, and after my career creation, I started traveling around Europe until I settled in the Netherlands, that the reason why I left Africa was not to, you know, like the standard migration story, like going to look for better lives. I came to Europe to try to understand how it came that Europeans are dominating Africa.
00:02:56:07 - 00:03:31:14
Max
So I wanted to understand what was going on, what what are the processes. And so I've been traveling all around. It's for a few years. I've been in Belgium, Germany, France. That's where I started. Norway. And then I end up in the Netherlands because it is a very small country where a lot of African people live. So I've done different things since I'm in the Netherlands.
00:03:32:11 - 00:04:12:09
Max
I stopped working in the educational system, so I was teaching at these schools. I've done it for two years. And then I also work for private companies because of my French speaking skills. It's my mother language, French. So the after that, I got involved in politics because I wanted to talk about this on equal relationship between Africa and and the Western world through politics.
00:04:12:09 - 00:04:45:10
Max
And then I discover very early that having informal influence on politics in Europe is much easier when you are outside of it. So this is how I became an LTS, an activist, and then I set up my own organization, Africa in Motion, in 2012 as an African Muslim. It's an organization. At the beginning, our idea was to our goal.
00:04:45:10 - 00:05:17:17
Max
Main goal was to bring African people in the Netherlands, but extended to Europe together and to speak with one voice about the policies made in Europe regarding Africa, to let our voice be heard. So we have done it for two years with the success also, because we have good things done, even at a political level in the Netherlands, in the parliament.
00:05:18:12 - 00:06:04:03
Max
We got more shall we got amendment adopted which recognized the role of the African Diaspora as protection are serious partner when it comes to policy regarding Africa. So that's that is how we started the advocacy. And then we start setting up projects to involve diaspora in development issues In Africa. As you know, in the diaspora, we have a lot of potential use for a lot of African people with experience, with expertise, with knowledge, and that can be involved in development in Africa.
00:06:04:04 - 00:06:36:18
Max
So we started developing projects. That is how we met, especially, and one was our project, one we were most about an entrepreneurship program to link African migrant living in the Netherlands with business idea to link them with partners in five African countries. So we are focusing on agriculture, on sustainable agriculture, renewable energy, knowledge transfer and those kind of things.
00:06:37:14 - 00:07:09:05
Max
And so since 2012, we are doing that. Yes. When colleagues it pandemic started, I also stopped reflecting on all this work I've been doing or let's see what we have been doing together with the African Diaspora and the meantime we are already working with University of Rakhine again to do research on the value chains of African raw materials.
00:07:10:14 - 00:07:46:13
Max
And it is when I discover what I was looking for, actually, when I left Africa, I really came to understand that the situation in Africa, the poverty specifically is a paradox and it's very clearly linked. It's to this unequal trade system that has been imposed to African countries. And that's when I initiated the movement called Equal Trade Alliance.
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Max
So a bit short or long, That's who I am, really. But I'm living for it.
00:07:56:00 - 00:08:21:06
Maanarak
The mic is yours. Don't worry. Yeah. So I did see. Indeed. First let me touch upon indeed witness the project of Africa in Motion. And I find it very aspiring that you are trying to link the diaspora, the African Diaspora, to things happening. One second.
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Max
Yeah.
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Maanarak
So the for the Africa motion where the entrepreneurs here from the diaspora were being linked to project or partners rather, in Africa, it was really inspiring because I myself am a diaspora from the Caribbean and it's a similar situation where there's a brain drain. I guess we don't have as much natural resources to offer as as Africa does, but it is definitely a brain drain when the youth comes here to study and then they never go back because they.
00:09:31:00 - 00:09:58:03
Maanarak
Accustomed here and they see they see that the riches are here, they're concentrated in Europe. And that's why I was also very happy to see kind of the evolution of your project to Africa in Motion that Edwin to this Equal Trade Alliance. Yeah, I'm actually very curious what what does the Equal Trade Alliance do?
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Max
Yeah, you said something very interesting. You said the Caribbean. You don't have that much natural resources and raw materials to offer, but it's human resources.
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Maanarak
Yes.
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Max
Most important, you know.
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Maanarak
Yes, I read. I read like, you know, this and this and that.
00:10:25:06 - 00:11:06:19
Max
Exactly my point. You know, we have been doing all these projects right, with the diaspora. Try to involve them and get them on the ground in Africa. We have enough success stories about that. When when I realized that that was not also not that the solution to African problems, that's when I start this initiative equal Trade Alliance, because the real reason of the what they call poverty in Africa, which I called Paradox of Poverty.
00:11:07:20 - 00:11:37:13
Max
It's linked to this unequal trade system that has been imposed to all African countries, but it's the same system that is imposed to the Caribbean. Yes, it's the same system imposed to the global South if you extend it. Mm hmm. So what is the problem? We deliver raw materials to the world. Word. Africa is feeding the world now for centuries.
00:11:38:05 - 00:12:10:21
Max
But we. We never get something back from it. And these raw materials, there is one issue. First, the price of the raw materials are being decided outside of Africa. Then I come to you. You have this nice microphone and I tell you, you know everything. I want to buy this, but the price is €1. Yeah. And because you don't have any industry, you don't make any product.
00:12:10:22 - 00:12:24:13
Max
So you need money to lead. And you tell me, okay, one zero is good. I take this microphone and I go sell it. €4,000. Yeah. And then I come back to you, I say, and I didn't say, you know, you are poor.
00:12:26:08 - 00:12:31:13
Max
But you still I give you one euros 50 for this one money.
00:12:32:18 - 00:13:07:17
Max
You're happy. Yeah. Now I get to. Life is getting better, you know, with my partner Max. So this is the big, big, big problem of Africa. And let's in the global south, we provide. And true allies come through with raw material. They pay ridiculous prices for for it. And when they process the raw material, they create once. Yeah, the one country for the one people and they make multibillion business out of our raw materials.
00:13:08:12 - 00:13:33:07
Max
So this is how the story started when we initiated the research program with developing and university, we share some of the value chain of cocoa beans, right? No cocoa beans that you find in the Netherlands comes from 85 or 87% from Ghana.
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Maanarak
85. Wow.
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Max
So all the production of cocoa beans from Ghana arrives in Amsterdam, right? Ghana owns every year something like $100 million from me from selling the raw materials. The Netherlands, who only makes 70 finished products from this cocoa, owns every year about 20 billion. So you can see the difference, 100,000,020 billion. And when it comes to the world market level, we talked in about $135 billion every year, made from one raw material from one African country.
00:14:26:19 - 00:15:05:17
Max
Yeah. And the same system is applied to all 64 African countries and all thousands of raw materials that are crucial for an industry in Western countries. Mm hmm. In China. In America. So this is the reason of poverty in Africa? Yes, For the same reason of poverty in the global South. You said the Caribbean don't have enough raw material, but you have a lot of oil, which is been also exported to the same conditions.
00:15:06:02 - 00:15:36:22
Max
Yes, that's the price. And then made multi billions business out of thin. So that's when this idea of equal trade certification, which means that we need to change the narratives. Mm hmm. Talking about the price of the raw materials, but start talking about sharing the benefit made at the end of the value chain. Right. So it is summarized the concept of equal trade.
00:15:37:06 - 00:16:12:16
Max
So we are advocating now for a systemic change of the trade system in raw materials. We started for Africa, but it means for all global south. Yeah, we need to share the revenue made from the processing of all the raw materials. That is the only way to stop. I don't like the word stop to eradicate poverty or poverty in our countries.
00:16:12:16 - 00:16:42:13
Max
Doesn't make any sense. There is no one logical reason for poverty in any African country. So this is why we are fighting for now and we are organizing it in this specific manner. Because if you start talking about this individual, you will face a lot of resistance and not one individual. You are a very easy target. Yes. Mm hmm.
00:16:43:12 - 00:17:15:06
Max
Even if one country start talking about this, the governments then become easy target. So to succeed in this advocacy, we need to do it at African level. Now, it has to be a kind of uprising of the African youth in all 54 African countries. At the same time. But then we associate it also with mobilization of young people in industrialized countries.
00:17:15:21 - 00:17:44:04
Max
But now we have to start a campaign in the Netherlands. We are extending it to to Germany, to Spain, to Italy, to France. We want to also cover all 27 European countries. Yes, mobilize the youth for them to understand that this system is running in their behalves without them knowing it. Mm hmm. And that's a big, big problem.
00:17:44:04 - 00:18:01:06
Max
I see. Anytime I go for awareness campaign. Last I was at the University of Delft. Can you imagine? Someone asked me or it told me at the end that he was not aware that agriculture was possible in Africa.
00:18:01:14 - 00:18:05:04
Maanarak
Wow. I can't. I cannot imagine.
00:18:05:09 - 00:18:07:07
Max
But yeah, it's like that.
00:18:07:10 - 00:18:10:04
Maanarak
Yeah. There's such an ignorance sometimes.
00:18:10:08 - 00:18:39:15
Max
Few months ago, someone was almost getting its master, which meant it's very close to become a parliament member, if you want. Yes. So this is what's going on. We need to campaign, make people aware, but at an African level, but also in the industrialized countries. So this is a bit the story of the World Trade Alliance.
00:18:40:02 - 00:19:28:11
Maanarak
I think what you just said is a very good example of when we talk about things like colonialism and even slavery to an extent that we hear often, those of us that that wants to start this conversation, we often hear, oh, but that's it's long gone. It's been 100 years already. But if you compare that a system ran basically I think it was like 400 years and then it's only been in comparison and that for 100 year that that means that that that system that was set in place is still pretty much running because it's not like they first of all, there's a misconception that they freed the slaves or the enslaved people fought for
00:19:28:11 - 00:19:49:08
Maanarak
their freedom. And then once that it was no longer profitable or the state here in Europe was no longer able to convince the people, let's keep having enslaved people that they were demanding change. Was that abolished? It's not like the system.
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Max
10 to 4.
00:19:50:19 - 00:19:52:14
Maanarak
Hundred years. It just.
00:19:53:07 - 00:20:35:08
Max
Now, back then, it's still going on. You know, it's so that's so that's why. And like at that time of slavery, people were fighting against our generation should have the same duty. We are not free until this day. We are talking now. They call it neo colonialism, but the system hasn't changed. I always make the joke. I tell people this The colonial plan was one of the best plans ever made because it's still working and people even don't know about it.
00:20:35:09 - 00:21:07:02
Max
They don't realize it's so strong that people just acknowledge like, Oh, it is normal. In Africa. People think poverty comes from God. Oh, you're poor. People think once it's normal, you know, because we have been working hard, we are intelligent. Yes, that's the reason. But there is an underlying system that has never changed. And the only way to change it is to create a critical mass of people.
00:21:07:07 - 00:21:36:17
Max
And both sides, global South countries, but also inside Western countries. Yes. To break down the resistance of this multinational because they use in Europe as political and also economical power. Mm hmm. They are No. One buying these products. Yes. And they are the one voting politician. The only thing is that they are not aware of what's going on.
00:21:38:03 - 00:22:02:15
Max
And that's our duty to make them aware like that is running in your behalf. Yes. Do you agree with this? Okay, Let's not get slavery. Fine. But what's going on now? It's even more dangerous than slavery, you know. So and it is going on this running in your behalf. Do you accept this? Would you agree with it? Yeah.
00:22:03:07 - 00:22:07:03
Max
There is a solution. We can change this system without fighting.
00:22:08:21 - 00:22:40:12
Maanarak
Yes, that is. We both have that idealism. But I think we are that that there certainly the mass majority of, let's say commoners are not aware that this system is running on their behalf. I would say that once you bring awareness to them, they're still be a part of that. That will have some resistance because you've become so comfortable.
00:22:41:09 - 00:22:41:15
Max
Yes.
00:22:42:08 - 00:22:48:18
Maanarak
With the riches that this system brings. Do do they do they have real incentive to really.
00:22:49:17 - 00:22:50:00
Max
Do.
00:22:50:00 - 00:22:53:16
Maanarak
What needs needs to be done in order for this to.
00:22:53:16 - 00:23:28:22
Max
So the awareness is about first the the undecideds, then industrialized countries explaining them like, look, this system runs in your behalf. You can change it if you want, but make them also, if you don't change this, what will come will be worse than anything you expect. If Africa unite and then we decide to stop relationship with Europe, you will get yourself in big, big, big troubles.
00:23:29:06 - 00:23:41:22
Max
Yeah. So do you want the peaceful transition to a just world? It's time you can do it. Or you want chaos. You will get it also. Yeah.
00:23:42:15 - 00:23:44:10
Maanarak
It's going to change regardless.
00:23:44:15 - 00:24:18:11
Max
Of change anyhow. Yeah. And the peaceful way is the best for you. And this is also part of awareness creation so that the one who are going to resist we tell them is sign. But look at what's coming to you after. Yeah, you can resist is fine, but don't think African youth will accept this for centuries. No and best and yeah, they stand up enough Nazi God they can destabilize to all system.
00:24:18:11 - 00:24:46:02
Max
You won't have any cocoa coming to the Netherlands, which means your chocolate industry will just collapse. So where are they going to find jobs? Yeah. If we don't send you coltan, you want us in the industry to make mobile phones. How are you going to call your girlfriend? We're going to e-mail your parents. I don't. We're going to treat people in hospital no more.
00:24:46:02 - 00:24:48:03
Maanarak
Yeah, no more avocados.
00:24:48:05 - 00:25:19:20
Max
Noting so and this is what will happen because the mobilization in Africa is ongoing right now. We are already in 38 countries in Africa. Yeah. So we have teams and those teams are mobilizing youth. We have youth Ambassador Tempus, Ambassador in all this country, in all university, we have people mobilizing the youth. Mm hmm. So this will happen anyhow.
00:25:19:20 - 00:25:44:07
Max
If you join, then it's fine. We can make it happen easily and more softly. You know, it's a kind of revolution. But we don't need to fight to to to reach its goal. And it's also better for you, because if there is no poverty in Africa anymore, we want us to do anything. We can pay for your expertise.
00:25:44:16 - 00:26:12:02
Max
Yes, You need. You just tell you look, there is an assignment. How much do you want? It is your money. You come to Africa, you do your thing, you enjoy the nice weather. You go out, you can dance, you can enjoy, and then you go. But yeah, so it can stop the development aid and we start a new relationship focusing on wealth creation.
00:26:12:02 - 00:26:23:21
Max
So this is the street in the streets people need to reach. Stop talking about development aid, but talking about wealth creation. That's a new direction. I'm trying to.
00:26:24:15 - 00:26:56:10
Maanarak
And it reminds me of this concept. Yesterday I was talking to this great designer from Abundant ISM, and it kind of reminds me of this concept that abundance for all it is possible. We don't have to know, keep this system that that is like only extracting and kind of hoarding hamster, as they call it, and that's that you kind of hoard all of the worthless self out of like a fear that you won't have enough.
00:26:56:10 - 00:27:13:05
Maanarak
And I think if we keep functioning out of that fear, we're just taking and taking and we're making we're making it worse for ourselves or other people, making it difficult for no reasons for people in the South.
00:27:14:00 - 00:27:17:06
Max
It's one more reason for trouble.
00:27:18:01 - 00:27:39:03
Maanarak
Yeah, I mean, maybe. Maybe the people that have some resistance can come and tell us their reasons, but I don't see any reasons why it should continue like this. We are well past a lot of the this. It's a paradigm shift. I think.
00:27:39:05 - 00:27:39:10
Max
We.
00:27:40:23 - 00:28:07:06
Maanarak
I think maybe some people has to catch up to that. But I think we're past this paradigm that people in the South can't take care of themselves, that we're stupid, that we can't learn, that we can't handle our money and our resources. So yeah, I'm very excited to see this eco trade alliance grow and see where it's going to go.
00:28:08:08 - 00:28:11:11
Maanarak
I hope that maybe like South America.
00:28:12:19 - 00:28:53:01
Max
We're going to turn it into Global South, but we need to to start somewhere. And also that is a lesson for the world. African people can change this world. So it's changing. This party is not only talking about the economics, but you said something very important. People are resisting out of fear. Yes, but when you think about the wound to fight loss of feed from Africa, if we have the the the leadership of the world, we can use this kind of concept to stabilize the World war.
00:28:53:02 - 00:29:24:16
Max
We don't need to fight each other. We don't need to think in competition. Yeah, we need each other, that's all. So it's it goes much deeper and the problem at this moment, it's like, okay, let's it's global South countries include African countries. We don't have the political power to express ourself, to impose our worldview on the world. At this moment we are taking everything from outside and they come inside, they tell you this is the way you have to act.
00:29:24:18 - 00:29:51:04
Max
It is the way you have to rule your one country. We have a much better system than what is going on in the Western countries. But because we are divided, we don't have this political power to say enough is enough. Yes, we don't listen to you. You listen to us all. You don't all all we don't collaborate. I all.
00:29:51:13 - 00:30:18:11
Max
Yeah, but this is political decision and the way African countries are now 64 countries. I think you are following the news. You see a 64 African president going to a meeting with one president of China, and then they're on they go to Russia for one meeting with one person, and then they go to the USA to meet one president and they go to France and.
00:30:18:19 - 00:30:21:23
Maanarak
Instead of organizing it in Africa and the other.
00:30:21:23 - 00:30:45:01
Max
One, I see them, President, I will never travel. You come to Africa because you need us? Yes. I have nothing to look in China to look for in China or in America. You come to me in Africa and we talk. Yes, I tell you how to do it. If you don't agree with that, we we stay. We remain friends, but we don't deal.
00:30:45:10 - 00:30:46:01
Max
Yes.
00:30:46:19 - 00:30:59:04
Maanarak
The issue in a lot of times this these kind of superpowers, once you don't agree with them, they want to superimpose or they come up with some kind of plan to break your country up.
00:30:59:04 - 00:30:59:20
Max
Not do.
00:31:00:03 - 00:31:08:02
Maanarak
This thing if you ask me. Because. Yeah, why Why can't we talk as adults and get to.
00:31:08:02 - 00:31:08:10
Max
Like.
00:31:08:22 - 00:31:28:19
Maanarak
Agreements that are mutual, which really that's an official. Are you mentioned about Africa being divided, but I wondered in terms of the there was an African Union formed or what is the function now of the joke?
00:31:28:19 - 00:32:00:07
Max
The African Union exists of course, but I was in Addis Ababa two months ago and when I was telling one of the the leader there about this concept of equal trade certification, he told me, Max, that is an eye opener, Right? Okay. So I was like, okay, it's good, but you are the leader. And then five years already know you are in charge.
00:32:00:14 - 00:32:33:12
Max
So you don't think about this kind of thing. Okay, fine. But to come back to a question, the African let's go back first to why is it Africa divided? You know, since the conference in Berlin in 1882, they came together. They divided Africa. Yeah. They create this six countries, you know, like Ghana, Nigeria, Togo, Guinea, Congo, and the same system remained the until now.
00:32:33:13 - 00:32:44:22
Max
So what what's happening with the African Union? I don't know if you are aware of that, but the African Union, it's been financed by the European Union.
00:32:45:03 - 00:32:49:09
Maanarak
MM I'm not surprised. I wasn't aware, but I'm not surprised.
00:32:49:15 - 00:33:30:11
Max
People are working at the African Union, get their salaries directly. It's from Brussels. Oh, from the European Union. They answer specific commission. They're for Africa. They paid the people working for the African Union. And the African Union is just something strategic. Yeah. You know, to, to, to, to deal with Africa directly from one stage, you know, like they go to Ethiopia and then they can tell all African country like, okay, this is the direction, this all we need to go because then then you get the development aid from us.
00:33:30:12 - 00:33:46:01
Max
If you go democracy, you get development. And if you initiate this kind of policies that the African Union, it's not unified Africa we are talking about.
00:33:46:04 - 00:34:01:05
Maanarak
Okay. They then then definitely I didn't know about this European Union got to see that it would be kind of like a copy of the European Union, you know, that it was like a direct sibling of this.
00:34:02:00 - 00:34:18:10
Max
No, it's just part of the game. You know, like they have create these African countries. They also decided to create the African Union and the African Union headquarter is the gift from China, the building they have.
00:34:19:05 - 00:34:22:17
Maanarak
That I understood. Yes. Because there was some talk about it being bugged.
00:34:23:05 - 00:34:30:15
Max
Yes. Those buildings are full of hide and cameras, microphones. So everything is just there.
00:34:31:06 - 00:34:32:09
Maanarak
It's it's not it's.
00:34:32:09 - 00:34:39:14
Max
The Secret Service of China. Listen to it every day. You know exactly what's going on in Africa. Yeah.
00:34:39:14 - 00:34:55:21
Maanarak
No, that that's not good. I think Africa deserves to have its own space the same way I see other countries as China, as the US. They have their own space. So there we can talk their things in and inside.
00:34:55:22 - 00:35:25:04
Max
Yes, they don't have that because they just don't have the money. And that is linked this international trade system. Yeah. So African countries are in kind of paradox of poverty. They maintain in this and then they they they give them loans, they give them condition to get development aid, which is actually our one money. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It's our one money we are going to beg for.
00:35:25:09 - 00:35:29:13
Max
Yeah. And then they can tell you no you don't get it, you know, and it.
00:35:29:13 - 00:35:30:11
Maanarak
Makes no sense.
00:35:30:22 - 00:36:03:02
Max
It shouldn't jump high. We don't get it, it doesn't make any sense. But the African Union, we are thinking about, it's more having a continent which is politically unite. Yes, but we don't Our 60 for president. But we are one president. We don't. Our 54 armies, but we have one army, which means you don't go any more from the Netherlands or from us.
00:36:03:02 - 00:36:32:18
Max
You said now going to Ghana. Yes. Don't go to Ghana. Ghana has no government. There is an African government one. And then when we start dealing and if we reached that level, we can control in one time all our resources. Yes. So putting all this resources together will give us a power position in the world because the all world is now is depending on Africa.
00:36:33:02 - 00:37:10:11
Max
Yeah. So if we can unified Africa and keep these things in our on our one control, then we can decide whatever we want. Yeah. Ones one example is like the raw material used for weapon and mistreats the most of them comes from Africa. Yeah. Congo and some big Tanzania South Africa. If we control this raw materials, we can tell America we don't want any relation with you as to assume let's you have this weapon policies.
00:37:10:20 - 00:37:34:16
Max
Yeah, you stop with it and then we can talk. If you don't want to stop with it, we don't need to talk to you. It's over. Yeah, we can tell anybody what we want. We can tell the Netherlands. Listen, if you want to. To talk with us, to deal with us used to means that are still. And then we can talk.
00:37:35:09 - 00:38:03:16
Max
Now if you don't do that, don't come back here. We don't need you because you are all depending on us. So did this the genocide? That's the goal we have in mind. And it's not the dream. It's just about having first eradicating this poverty is bringing African people together. And if we succeed on this, we become the legitimate leaders.
00:38:03:16 - 00:38:38:18
Max
So Classica and people really understand unifying Africa when we take these borders away doesn't mean people from Nigeria will all run to Ghana, know if they can get their share in the national kicked out, why aren't they going to Ghana? If Ghanian people have good life, why are they going to Togo yet to do to to invade? There is no reason they can go there as tourists or do business.
00:38:39:13 - 00:38:39:21
Max
No.
00:38:40:08 - 00:39:02:17
Maanarak
Yeah, because I see I know the I worked with project in there are situated in Uganda, but they have a lot of refugee women from Sudan. And the only reason that camp is there is because of the war. Exactly or so we're going on in done. And otherwise they would still be. Yeah. At home basically.
00:39:03:06 - 00:39:46:02
Max
And under the condition to this is to change one you know what they have done after the colonization the amounts they went to the government they told them and they sent you change one article in the Constitution and then we are in business. And this article, they have changed say that the Roma territories belong to the governments and it is the reason of all this corruption in Africa, because People are fighting to get into office to be the ones sending the raw materials, and this is something we are going to change by seeing the raw materials belong to the people.
00:39:47:08 - 00:40:16:20
Max
So anyone from Zimbabwe will get its share in selling diamonds from every you will have money on your account. So why are they going to lose to South Africa? Yeah. If you give someone from South. So Zimbabwe every year on this bank account 20 $30,000 it cling to South Africa to do what? Instead they are to look at Sudan.
00:40:16:20 - 00:40:35:10
Max
Now there is a war, what they call war with the real reason. It's that Russia is using gold from Sudan to fund the war in Ukraine. So they need gold from there. Yeah. The best way to get it is to create the kind of conflict.
00:40:35:20 - 00:40:38:04
Maanarak
That's causing great chaos. And then there's.
00:40:38:15 - 00:41:08:12
Max
Chaos and then taking anything they want because they are dealing with one or two people in the country who are owners of the raw materials. That's so those are things people should understand, especially in Africa, because we are running after all this way. Some of the concept coming in, you need democracy, and by democracy they mean you need to organize yourself to get access to this place, to be able to to sell the raw materials.
00:41:08:13 - 00:41:32:19
Max
Yes, that's all the African politician. They don't have any vision. They don't have any plan. They don't have any ideology. The only thing they are looking for is to get into office and be their own. The one who are able to sell the raw materials of the country at the ridiculous prices. But still they get enough money for small people.
00:41:33:20 - 00:41:59:10
Maanarak
And it it's it's like this created this crab in a bucket situation where everybody say okay get to that top to to I think it's basic survival because if you create such poverty and then on that top, you can have a chance of of living a normal life. You will be trying to go up there as well to.
00:41:59:22 - 00:42:33:04
Max
Sort how the state in Africa in this situation, because people are confused and they are surviving. Yes, that's the perfect combination to keep countries weak. Yeah, you can do anything with the country with weak, but that's the situation. And when I understand this thing really well, I initiated the Equal Threat Alliance first, the equal threats of defecation. We have developed a major and then the alliance to advocate for it.
00:42:33:14 - 00:42:39:23
Max
Okay. I hope you get it now.
00:42:40:08 - 00:42:55:07
Maanarak
Yes, I understand. Thank you so much for sharing that story with us there. As as I said, I'm excited to see how this develops. And you're definitely welcome later down the line when you.
00:42:56:04 - 00:42:56:12
Max
Speak.
00:42:57:06 - 00:43:09:06
Maanarak
Of updates for us, how it's going with the Equal Trade Alliance and ask you, is there anything that you want to share as your closing words for this episode?
00:43:10:03 - 00:43:45:03
Max
Yeah, Closing words. What you like to say, what what is important in life for the generation from now and the next one is to really try to accept the idea that we are all equal. We are all equal. It doesn't matter if you are a woman or a man, a white yellow blood as human being. We should get disability to see all of us equal.
00:43:45:18 - 00:44:22:02
Max
Yes. So that is for me, the most important message. If you try to do this, it can change your life. And by changing your lives internally, you can change things around you. We should stop thinking in competition. Yes, that's very insulting. Very important. Stop thinking about competition and try. Maybe start too difficult. Try to love each other. If you can do that, just try to think we are all equal.
00:44:22:02 - 00:44:29:08
Max
Okay? I don't love you. Hate you. Fine, but not equal. I don't need to dominate and I don't need to be dominated.
00:44:29:10 - 00:45:13:03
Maanarak
Yes, it's. It's live and let live. You have equal rights to be here and have a decent life. The other one and your way of living. You shouldn't be affecting the other to the extent that they can even afford basic needs that we all need. Like like water, food, shelter. I think people aren't even asking that much. They just they just want to eat and have a place to to rest and you have to constantly worry about where am I going to get money tomorrow?
00:45:13:03 - 00:45:41:22
Maanarak
What am I going to eat? Cannot work. Safety safely down the street. Like, you know, it's just basic things just to live. And I think that once we reach that point there, we can have a much more beautiful existence together because at once your basic needs are met, then you can get to do more the things that you're meant to do here on Earth.
00:45:42:14 - 00:46:13:04
Max
At the time. Yeah, Yeah. So that's actually been my case minutes. And I write you for we are we are organizing together with the foundation around is internally three of October in Amsterdam for canisters lecture an event called Neocolonialism of the Netherlands and based in Amsterdam. So and it's about this cocoa value chain. Okay. Yes.
00:46:13:11 - 00:46:35:00
Maanarak
Okay. So thank you very much for joining us. Good luck with everything with the Equal Trade Alliance. We will be in contact and following you as well. And we hope to have you back because we want an update on what's going on. And to the listeners, thank you for listening to our show podcast. Until next time.
00:46:35:17 - 00:46:39:07
Max
And thank you for inviting me to the next time.
00:46:39:17 - 00:46:40:17
Maanarak
So you're welcome.
00:46:41:01 - 00:46:55:12
Max
Bye bye.
Equal trade alliance